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NKsteve
 February 9th, 2012 3:33am #1NKsteve
Regular (17) - NKsteve.484

I dunno if anyone even posts here anymore, but was looking at our logo compared to other pro teams logos at the following link, and i just think some work could be done on it.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes .. ?topic_id=309034

Now don't get me wrong i have no issues with the phoenix part of the logo, however the text 'VILE' at the top just looks like a 3 year old drew it with crayons and if you put it near other teams logos it stands out, in primary school project kinda way.  Am I the only one to notice this?
NKpuppy
 February 9th, 2012 6:57am #2NKpuppy
Regular (29) - NKpuppy.358

You were hotter when you were a girl.
Property of sKTravhttp://d.imagehost.org/0337/pup.jpgIf you sometimes feel a little useless, offended or depressed... Always remember that [b]You[/b] were once the fastest and most victorious sperm out of millions.
PrOPHeT
 February 9th, 2012 8:52am #3PrOPHeT
Regular (18) - PrOPHeT.129

http://vilegaming.com/forums/topics/271 .. _vile_gaming_nub
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/Rein517/2724-SgTReinSig.png
NKsteve
 February 10th, 2012 5:14am #4NKsteve
Regular (17) - NKsteve.484

# NKpuppy
You were hotter when you were a girl.


go lick em

# PrOPHeT
http://vilegaming.com/forums/topics/27165/a_few_thoughts_from_a_vile_gaming_nub


so basically this post just says he agrees with me that we aren't completely happy with it.  Good to hear, but is anything being done about it? As far as Kris's response goes, other than rambling about how pepsi has nothing to do with the logo, which is a fair call, it seems that he is happy with the primary school text.
NKpuppy
 February 10th, 2012 8:54am #5NKpuppy
Regular (29) - NKpuppy.358

NKjessica > NKsteve, is all I'm sayin'
Property of sKTravhttp://d.imagehost.org/0337/pup.jpgIf you sometimes feel a little useless, offended or depressed... Always remember that [b]You[/b] were once the fastest and most victorious sperm out of millions.
-Jacob-
 February 10th, 2012 11:38am #6-Jacob-
Arch Admin (28) - SgTDarKTeMp.944

I don't mind the logo.  I think its better than what it used to be.
http://i56.tinypic.com/11ryzdj.jpg
NKexquisite
 February 10th, 2012 2:45pm #7NKexquisite
Arch Admin (30) - NKexquisite.167

I guess the text could be cleaned up, I guess I never really noticed it...
Contact Me! exquisite@vilegaming.com
AlteredsEgo
 February 12th, 2012 9:52pm #8AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

I hate to repost, but as there are too relevant threads on the same subject I thought I would post this here as well.

After reworking an older design idea I finally have something that is starting to look halfway decent. I think I am blending it too much though, and I need to increase the contrast. Maybe tomorrow if I have some time I will start looking at adding some color as well as a few more detail elements.

Below are 4 images of this latest design in the various stages of its progression:










As always: I welcome any feedback on this design.
NKsteve
 February 12th, 2012 11:57pm #9NKsteve
Regular (17) - NKsteve.484

First impressions i like it, looks like a very polished design, some points i'd make about it;

- adding the logo of each race to the design doesn't seem necessary, i don't feel like they add anything and that they were put in for the sake of it/to fill empty space; and
- i assume the word vile in the middle (i had to look at it a while to pick up exactly what you did there, i like the idea behind it) is meant to resemble the phoenix, which it does bear resemblance to the wings, but i feel like there could be a bit more effort to incorporate the phoenix to the design, because if you didn't know our logo was the phoenix already you probably wouldn't pick up on the resemblance from just looking at this logo.

All in all tho I do quite like what you have done so far.
AlteredsEgo
 February 13th, 2012 12:34am #10AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

Yeah it is a struggle to incorporate more of the phoenix look and keep the shape of the letters so that they are relatively easy discern, but I will certainly try to do more of that as I continue to work on it. I had thought about creating some additional elements into the shield itself to help carry across that theme, but as of right now I am not sure how I am going to do that.

Due to the fact that the letters are not instantly recognizable I wanted to make sure to include something in the design that said Team Vile to make it is easier to associate the logo with the entity it represents.

I understand your point about the race logos, but I did include them for a reason actually. (Although they do take up space nicely.) From my perspective a good logo should do three things:

1) Look good. (Obviously)

2) Be easily identifiable and reliably associated with the entity that it represents.

3) Quickly impart information to someone seeing the logo for the first time about the brand that it is associated with.

In the case of the latter, I think having the individual race symbols (and borrowing some of the StarCraft 2 design language) helps to communicate some of that information. For example: lets say you are wearing a Team Vile shirt somewhere like Blizzcon. Now if someone is new to StarCraft 2 they might not have heard of Team Vile before. (I know the chances of that are low, but go with me on this.) By incorporating some of those details into the logo there is a better chance that the person seeing your shirt will associate Team Vile with StarCraft 2.

Really that is my biggest complaint from a design standpoint with the current logo. I like the Phoenix. I think it looks really cool, but it by itself says nothing about Team Vile, Vile Gaming, or the Vile community. I know that Spartan disagrees with me on this point as well. (And obviously he knows more about running a community and a competitive team like Vile than I will probably ever know.) Just from my perspective a good logo should contain that kind of information.

Regardless, if I do end up coming up with a logo that Spartan and the other heads of the Vile organization like: you are free to alter or request alterations to anything you wish. The logo is a purely vector based object, and all of the individual elements are appropriately parted out. (Meaning you can enable and disable all the elements individually simply by showing or hiding the various layers that they are linked to.)


I do greatly appreciate the feedback, and I will certainly attempt to work in your suggestions. As I do continue to post progress updates I would greatly appreciate thoughts or suggestion from you or anyone else who has an opinion on my work.
PrOPHeT
 February 13th, 2012 6:32am #11PrOPHeT
Regular (18) - PrOPHeT.129

I assume you made the Vile in the middle look like VG on purpose? If so, great job.  If not, lucky you! :D I'd have to say I like the 2nd one the most. #1 is too plain, 3 and 4 are too bright at some points esp.  at the top, so it's even hard to see the race symbols.
#2 has a nice balance of lighting.  Also, based on the past logos and artwork I've seen Kris do... I feel like he's looking for simplicity.  Although these samples aren't very complex, maybe you should try thinking a little more simplistic.

All in all, I do like these, and my vote goes to #2.  Thanks for all the time you've put into this, really means a lot!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/Rein517/2724-SgTReinSig.png
AlteredsEgo
 February 13th, 2012 2:33pm #12AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

I am glad to see so many people weighing in on my designs. As Promised I started to work on adding some color today, (Which should help with some of the issues the PrOPHet referenced in regards to contrast) but after thinking about some of of the other comments: I decided to try messing with some different ideas to see if there was any way that I could try to incorporate some of your ideas into the design. The images below are what I have so far.





Descriptions

Design 1: Is the base design with some color added. (The color shown is not finished. I wanted to get a chance to show off some of the other design ideas before I continued working on that.)

Design 2: Is the aviator wings type design with the VILE text removed and a Version of the Phoenix logo installed in its place. (I needed a vector image without the shadowing to work with, so don't be too harsh on the Phoenix itself; as I put that together in like 15 minutes, and it is not a final design. I am showing it now simply to give you a chance to tell me what you like. I might eventually mess with some of the angles on the Phoenix to better match the wings; assuming you think I should keep it in there.)

Design 3: Is basically a composite of the first 2 designs with the Vile text in front and the Phoenix incorporated into the shield with its wings extending out from the sides.

Design 4: Is essentially the same as Design 3, but in this case the Phoenix has its wings clipped and its form is relegated completely to the shield.

Additional Notes: I may try incorporating some flames into the shield design as well in the lower corners to make it more clear that it is a Phoenix rising from the ashes. I am going to focus on the colors for right now to give you a chance to respond to the various images I posted. (I need to recreate some of the wing elements as well; as some of the corners are a bit weird at the moment, and are not all that clean.)

Comment Responses:

PrOPHeT I actually did not intend the VG thing, but I see what you mean. So you can chalk that up to luck rather than skill. Also the designs I posted earlier are basically the logo during its various stages of development.

The first one is not intended to be a proposal; as it was simply the rough "sketch" that I based the rest of my design work around.

As far as the complexity issue goes: I agree. Basically I had planned on finalizing a logo design that is more suitable for the web, (I.E.  One that incorporates a lot of lighting and gradients, and has a somewhat 3D feel to it.) and once that had been completed I was going to create a second version that is limited to 3 or 4 colors and is more simplistic in regards to its overall shape. By going that route hopefully the final logo design will work for both digital and print media. Obviously in the end both logos should have pretty much the same feel; even if their final aesthetics are somewhat different.
AlteredsEgo
 February 13th, 2012 5:05pm #13AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

What does everyone think of this? I messed with some of the lines, and tried to adjust the color a bit more. I am not totally sold on the text at the top, but that is easy enough to adjust later. (I just picked the first font that seemed close.) I increased the contrast, but it may be a bit too blue right now.



Overall to me I think it is quite striking, and having the shield I think helps to communicate the whole Phoenix theme. There are still a lot of things to work on but I think it is a step in the right direction. Can't wait to hear everybody's thoughts, and please don't try to spare my feeling with any critiques you might have.
AlteredsEgo
 February 13th, 2012 5:37pm #14AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

This is perhaps a totally different topic, but I was about to go Ladder for a bit, and a thought occurred to me about Vile Gaming: the community does not really have a tag line. Not that it necessarily needs one, but I did have an idea that I wanted to share with everyone:



It is kind of simple, but I like it. It eludes to the whole Phoenix thing, and it also says something about us as StarCraft fans; as I think everyone is always trying to rise up the ladder. (Which is part of the reason a lot of people probably first came to this community.) I just thought I would go ahead and post it as well in the event anyone else had some thoughts or opinions.
IllLogic
 February 14th, 2012 3:56pm #15IllLogic
Regular (2) - IllLogic.645

Heya, Vile fan here =) I just want to throw in my two cents.

I need to say I've read both posts in regard to the critiques and suggested logo changes.

AlteredsEgo: In my personal opinion Design 2 is your home run.

Here's why:
1) As a fan of VG: I see the phoenix and immediatly Team Vile comes to mind.  NKSpartan was right when he said the logo is the name, the brand, the whole 9 yards.  I,as someone who knows Vile's logo, don't need the words Team Vile to be there to tell me I'm looking at Team Vile when i see that phoenix.

2) it's simple clean and sharp looking.  No clutter to distract from the branding.  With the name on the sides, it tells someone who is looking at it for the first time what team is being represented by this logo.

Just two things I'm not sure I like about it. (personal opinions)

1) I don't think the SC2 race logos on the top of it are nescesary.

2) (this one im sure you just havent gotten around to as you are still in design stages) It's missing the green of the original phoenix. (color is just as much a part of branding as a shape is =) )

Other than that I think all of your work is amazing =) (read: I wish i had your skills)

IllLogic
"Buy the ticket, take the ride!" Hunter S. Thompson
AlteredsEgo
 February 15th, 2012 6:21pm #16AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

Glad to see I got more feedback. I don't have much time, but I did want to go ahead and make a few points.

As to the Phoenix: For one I still don't get how a Phoenix can be used; as there is no promoted backstory to explain the linkage. (For example: I am from Atlanta. Sherman's Army burned Atlanta to the ground, and the modern city was rebuilt on it's ashes: hence Atlanta is called the Phoenix of the South.)

Additionally the logo before never even struck me as a Phoenix, as there is no implication that it is arising from flames or something of that nature. (Which is kind or a requirement for a Phoenix to be a Phoenix.  I mean look at the various Phoenix Suns logos for examples.) I just thought that it was a mecha looking bird (reminded me a bit of some of the artwork on Linkin Park's older albums actually), that had a sort of V shape to it. (Which made sense since Vile starts with a V.)

If you want it to look more like a Phoenix you have to do something more like this:



(Yes I understand this is crap, but I rather quickly threw it together... so give me a break on the style of this one.)

As to The Colors: Green is not a very powerful color and I don't really understand using it for a StarCraft related entity. StarCraft 1 and 2 both used blues, blacks, black and greys. Heart of the Swarm (which is Zerg centric, and would be the most logical to have green it it... uses purple for some reason. (I don't get that one from a design perspective.) I can try swapping things around, but I will say that personally I don't get the attachment to the old color palette. (I mean even the vile gaming website uses blue more prominently that green... but I do get wanting to have a contrast color to get peoples attention.)

Sorry for keeping this so brief, and I apologize if I came across kind of short in some of my replies. I am just in a bit of a rush, but wanted to respond to your comments as soon as possible.
PrOPHeT
 February 15th, 2012 7:45pm #17PrOPHeT
Regular (18) - PrOPHeT.129

I actually like this last one, but I think it needs some text of some sort, it seems too naked.  Maybe just Team Vile on it like this one...


Once again, really appreciate all the time you're putting into this.  It's really developing into something great!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/Rein517/2724-SgTReinSig.png
AlteredsEgo
 February 16th, 2012 3:55am #18AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

Would something like this work? Add some flames down below maybe change the text up top? What does everyone think?



(Right click and view image to see a larger version.)
PrOPHeT
 February 16th, 2012 8:57am #19PrOPHeT
Regular (18) - PrOPHeT.129

I think it would look better with Team Vile on the sides, like the other ones.  It still just seems a little too bare.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/Rein517/2724-SgTReinSig.png
AlteredsEgo
 February 16th, 2012 12:35pm #20AlteredsEgo
Regular (4)

Okay I have three other possible suggestions for this issue:



I tried to shrink the wings a bit and involve the wings more with the shield design using a different background. (Have not adjusted the colors much on this background; so bear with me if they are a bit too strong.)



Just simplifying the design, losing the wings, and keeping the new background.



Or lose the wings, and keep the old background.

Let me know what you think. (I am reluctant to put the text on the wings again because it is hard to balance both sides.  I and L are really small characters, and that combined with the relatively large characters in TEAM... make it difficult to keep he symmetry.)
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