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Failing at sc1/sc2 or even Life? read this!Forums / General / Bar & Grill
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September 2nd, 2010 4:24pm #1CroN.CF Regular (3) |
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Edit: Yeah I realize it's long. Most will skip it. Don't care. Read the first few paragraphs at least. Before I get into a potentially long topic I want to let anyone who considers long reads such as this one boring or anyone who considers a deeper look into someone else personal perspective as crying or bitching then please don't continue to read if in the end your only comments will be to state that opinion. I'm fully aware that this topic may turn out to seem that way towards some but my intent for writing this are for those who may think otherwise or for those who are actually interested in what I'm about to discuss. If you do feel this way though then I would still recommend that you at least read on a bit farther before creating a solid opinion. Before I actually talk about my main topic though I want to say a little about myself since I'm sure not many people will know who I am. It's not really important but I guess for some people it might be. It will however relate somewhat to what I want to talk about. I just rather not have the first few responses to be jokes of me complaining or comments like "who are you? lol". Feel free to say whatever you want though. Honestly I don't care how anyone responds as long as they read everything first. My main akas are CroNuS.CF CroN.CF and currently Zetsubo.CF. Besides clan ColdFire I've never been in many other clans. I was in sX. for a short time and in the original [BG] (not [BBG] on west) about 8 years ago. I just mention this though since I think there was another cronus going around on another tag at some point. It's not really important but I just want to avoid that confusion for anyone. I've been around the FMP community for about 6-7 years now and a Starcraft player for about 9. I remember the days before VGT existed and SCD had not started yet and FMP wasn't very competitive. In fact most good players back then were known for their macro styles. If you macro well and your unit mix was strong enough then there were never a need for buildings such as cannons since cannons were considered stationary and zealot/dragoons were mobile. They were used as an offense as well as a defense. So cannons were pretty much seen as a waste. If you made them you would become behind in economy and eventually out massed/upgraded or just have your front broken.. and by cannons I'm talking a single plyon with 4-6 cannons and a gateway in front just to make your choke slightly tighter. Their were recalls and drops but temp drops were not abused as they are seen today. I remember back then top players on SCD were names like kefu01(xc) and korean[bf]. FMP had started to evolve though and as time went on these players had a style which were no longer as strong. For a game to become a 1 hour struggle no longer happened. Even though the maps started to get more minerals and gas, these maxed out macro styles were no longer seen as much because players learned to tech faster and use drops. For some odd reason dodging storm drops like seen today wasn't discovered for years so people would just move to gases and pretty much just take the storm. Players would try defending using more cannons/turrets so thats when more shuttles started being used and FMP started to seem pretty gay at that point. Styles were forced to change and if you didn't change then you would lose against "worse players". I think people felt that those players weren't as good and if you played them in late game or if they didn't get "lucky drops off" then you would win easy. This is pretty much how things went down. I feel now though that top players of today have mixed both styles. They are good and dropping and defending drops meanwhile getting a strong army is also seen. There would be some games where players would drop and drop until they massed up a large enough army to actually break the opponents cannons but now once a good drop gets off the dropper can pretty much end the game fairly quickly. That's pretty much just my perspective of FMPs evolution until now. During this time though I have never entered a season of SCD or VGT. As a matter of fact I don't even post here on VGT forums and as for SCD even though I've posted there a few times in the past ive only been to that site a few times in the last few years. Because of this I by no means consider myself a bad player. I'm not saying I'm good but I think I'm better then the average player because of my general in game sense and experience over the years. I'm also not the fastest player either but my apm/eapm too is above average. Some people believe I would be a lot better if I did actually play in VGT but that is something I'm not very interested in. As of right now I can hold my own around the B - A- range. My only real reason of playing is for some of the friends I've made through the years which I keep in contact with and we play Starcraft from time to time and just shoot the shit in our clan channel. I don't get on to improve or to try getting ranked or to get any type of reputation whatsoever. I mean losing isn't the greatest feeling and I'm sure most if not everyone reading this will agree with that but I do try to be as GM and chill about pretty much everything and towards everyone. I'm sure most who do know me can vouch for that unless of course I'm getting BM'd or some idiot is just being a complete asshole. It took me a while to actually get the motivation to write this though since I knew there would be a lot I would have to explain for everything to come together and make sense so I left a few reminders on my desktop to do this at sometime in the near future. My reason is I would consider myself a pretty old school player for FMP even though no one really knows me and over the years of seeing FMP grow I felt it would be a good time to get on and post about a few things which I feel might actually benefit the community. Both average players as well as all the newcomers. What I want to talk about is skill and personality and how these 2 things relate in not only Starcraft but how they can probably effect you in real life too. Among these things I'm going to post some replays and screenshots of examples. I wasn't sure if I should of posted this in the serious discussion area/ auditorium/ or even the danger room since I would reveal some players akas. One person in particular though who was the main motivation for all this. I'll get to him later though. I try to be as polite and mannered as I can when talking seriously about something especially to people who I don't know very well but considering I explained a lot right now I feel it would be best if I just made things a little more blunt. I would make this a better read too. Personally I feel there is a lot more BM going on now then in the past. When I go to the common channels like 55 or sess there just seems to be a ton of idiots lurking around. It tends to get a lot worse when you actually try to play against most people. I mean I totally get stupid humor and not to be serious 24/7 but it just seems to me too many people have so much to prove over a video game. It's like their girlfriend makes fun they have a small penis and they need to prove that wrong by having a huuuuuuuge ego in Starcraft. The funniest more recent words which seems to be turning into (if not already) BM is the word "dodge". "re?" "nah man not now" "dodge more faggot!" wtf is that shit? It's like turning down a challenge is actually becoming a bad thing these days lol. I mean does every game have to be played right then and there? not everyone can sit down and accept every challenge game after game. Then I notice bm starts because people take "dodging" as a bad thing. Don't take dodging as a bad thing. If you have it in you to play the guy again but just don't want to play right then then you don't have to. I've seen kelevran play and he's a hell of a good player meanwhile in replays he tells people things like "nah im done for right now" or "maybe later". I remember seeing a rep a long time ago of someone saying how kele intimidates him meanwhile kele was just like "... its just a game.." Here is my personal opinion. If you are someone with a huge ego or consider someone a hacker without proof and without saying it as a joke, then chances are you are a terrible Starcraft player. The extent of your understanding for Starcraft does not go outside the things you already know. I believe most people at first get crushed in this game so they try to get better. They learn hotkeys and learn build orders and what units are good. Once they reach that stage it becomes about practice in how to do it better such as macroing properly etc. Now once they go and do this they start to feel pretty confident. Maybe the only thing they lack is some apm compared to some others but they feel they have the basics down.. all they need now is to learn how to variety it up a bit and to know what their opponent is doing and they can beat nearly everyone if they execute properly. This philosophy doesn't go too far though. It leaves little room for improvement. The only thing I left out is players actually copying others. What I just mentioned is probably the basic outline for most players in the FMP community but throw in downloading A - K rank replays and trying to copy those builds and you have a pretty common VGT players perspective of the game. The top players win doing a specific thing so therefore that thing must be the best possible way to handle the situation. Which can be true but that only means each matchup has a very limited amount of ways to play and all other things seem "bad" A good example is in ZvT how the counter to tank push is a rush to guardians meanwhile there are other alternatives like ling/hydra. I played against someone (ill show the rep/name later) who went proxy fact tank push and once he had a decent amount of tanks he started massing wraiths out of 3 starports to counter my air meanwhile i just went hydra/ling so he said I hacked. He thought I was going guardians meanwhile I didnt even have a Lair. Actually I think I got the lair for ovie speed but that's about it. It seems to me like trends have become so common that to do anything besides those trends seem "wrong". I think when hash was on the top of VGT he was going hydra/ling for a while too just to throw something new in the mix and it worked. Many people don't know me and when I start to do well against them they start to think I hack. I'm not trying to make this sound like I'm such a great player or anything but because I had good scouting or I was able to know what someone has or might be doing is considered hacking from their perspective just because I was prepared. Ask any top player in VGT and I bet anything they will agree with me that you can know something without actually seeing it. Its reading your opponent not by what you see they have but also by things you don't see. Here is an example.. very early in PvT the protoss can be aggressive early on with zealots and cannons. If this is not happening then obviously the protoss is not planning on rushing you therefore you can assume other possibilities. By scouting you can pinpoint possibilities but you can also narrow down the possibilities first with information such as the protoss being defensive rather then offensive. So it's ok to get your anti drop defense a little faster because of this since your taking into account the fact of potential faster gasing then normal. It's not because your hacking.. it's because your playing smart and playing smart in an RTS game is skill. being fast and knowing how to micro is not the only measure for skill. Here is where I think that other perspective/philosophy which I mentioned early comes into play. Take a player who can drop pretty well and is pretty successful with a handful of builds and strategies. Lets say he does w/e and his drops get off well even versus good/fast players. Then he comes across a slower player who might not be as good overall but this strategy doesn't seem to work and the drops fail almost often. Instead of thinking there might be something wrong with what hes doing he will jump to the assumption that his opponent is hacking. Something he does that works for years and years versus all types of players made him believe that is actually a good thing to do meanwhile he is completely ignoring the possibility that maybe it wasn't as great as he thought all along in every situation because maybe most players were actually worse and it didn't even matter whats right or wrong or maybe other players that were better just got caught off guard. hell.. it might even be possible that all these "good" players which he can beat are not actually that smart in the first place and only seem smart because that player is merely following the same trends he does but just does it better. This is just the Starcraft perspective of things though. So many clans seem to BM these days. Its sad to see that most decent players are the ones who bm. It's like their ego got in the way of things. I kind of feel like it's getting more enjoyable to hang around with people who suck and their daily activities on sc is discussing the discovery that rally points exist rather then an actually skillful clan that talks shit like fucking crazy just because they believe they are hot shit in this game. In the end they don't realize they're all shit though. Their ego is shit. Then a lot of these players start to take things personal. It's as if Starcraft is not big enough to hold that huge ego and they need to bring up real life. "I'm 24. I make x amount of money. I fuck all the hottest bitches and your just a fucking scrub. grow up kid" (I love the use of the word "kid" as if they are seniority) meanwhile I can't help but think things like.. well first of all your the one who is nearing his 30s soon and spends his free time to argue irrelevant points over a video game. Secondly those bitches you fuck probably wouldn't even get into a relationship with you since your personality is shit and if they do their personality is probably shit too which I guess makes it a good match and 3rd I feel bad if you get a bitch pregnant and reproduce because then your kid is going to grow up to be a complete asshole just like you. If you don't have a kid then I guess be an asshole all you want. If you do then I guess your going to have your first kid in your 30s or some shit because right now your still arguing about skills over a video game. It's sad though when I try to make this point clear and they just respond like "LOLOL CRY MORE NEWB" because then I feel like I'm trying to explain something to an 8 year old. If their dick is as big as they say it is then I wonder if they say that same thing when fucking their g/f since it must be too big for her to handle. idk how to respond to that. This has already become such a long read that it would be pretty cool if anyone read this much so far and is still interest/entertained by it. I guess it doesn't matter if I add a few more things. I did want to mention someone in particular though. The reason I'm posting some screenshot/replays is because either so many people out there are stupid as fuck or I have played the same person for over a year now on many different akas and his stupidity is so fucking wide that not even a smurf name can cover it up. If these people are all different then I'm sorry if your in these games but your all pretty stupid. la.oou - (probably a smurf account since he has like 3 games played right now) g)a-dragoon - you were recruited into .cf unless someone used your name as a smurf aka dark.cf/toxic.cf - he is dragoon and went like 74-1 until i 3-0 him and quit clan. aow-ultima - 22-0 until i 1-0 him and he bm and quit clan subaru - some smurf claiming he is silent.storm silent.storm - i just wrote the name twice in case no one is reading these descriptions Apparently his name is brad (unless its a smurf of course) but he's an asshole. He beat me once on la.oou with a 4 pool when I proxy gate and in game 2 we had a pretty decent conversation. I was like "oh u rushed how come? just being randomly risky i suppose? i just tried doing something im not good with to try it out and to practice" and he was like "ya man it works in vgt cuz ppl do it so much plus im not so good with zerg" so i was like "oh ok cool". Then I stopped a few drops and he was like YOUR A HACKING MOTHER FUCKER HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF ITS SO SAD!!! I dunno how he can live with himself without some form of medication. Here are the games. http://vgcache.com/replays/4523 http://vgcache.com/replays/4524 http://vgcache.com/replays/4525 http://vgcache.com/replays/4526 Each one is about 20 minutes or less so you can go through them pretty quickly on 4x. The text is funny so watch them for entertainment if nothing else. Look for my hacks too if you believe I hack. The reason I'm also doing this is because the range of these games were played over the last year. He has the same build orders and the same bm. He would say threats like how I'm banned from sess meanwhile I rarely go there and don't really care much if I really were banned. He was pretty much annoying and if he does this so much and for so long.. over the course of one whole year and on different akas then I guess I'm trying to warn people to leave this smurf out of your clans until he grows up. Also if no one posted about him yet then he had it coming. If it's not one person then each of you had it coming. The screenshots is the bm after the game. la.oou bmed after the game too and I wanted to screenshot it but I ended up going to answer my door and I disconnected from b.net when I got back (dunno if other people get this issue sometimes) but I was sad about that. The bm from la.oou was telling me to grow up and shit. The funny part was I wasn't responding and when I got back I seen he said "LOL STFU AND GROW UP KID CRY MORE" meanwhile I wasn't even at my computer.. I never even said anything to him so I dunno why he told me to stfu and started yelling lol. Maybe he was looking for attention. I tried giving him serious advice on his other account if this is really the case since maybe he doesn't have enough friends but he just ignored it and continued to bm as you can see in the screenshots. http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5863-ultima1.JPG http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5864-ultima2.JPG http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5865-ultima3.JPG http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5866-ultima4.JPG But yeah anyone moving into sc2 don't act this way. If you do just try taking other things into consideration if you want to really improve at the game and make more friends. In low money maps people do stuff like this all the time. They read their opponent and respond accordingly like getting a faster expansion or not. Seeing if they can cut some units here and there to get some other things a little faster. You can even see this on FMP with the top players. I think kele does it best. I seen Chosen made a video about him saying he wins and people are like wtf?? how did I lose? nothing makes sense anymore. Meanwhile he just executes things properly and tries to cut small corners here and there even if it's something like getting range out a little slower or something. He would even cancel range if it makes him get something else out a few seconds faster and these small advantages are what I think separate the good players from the best. Sorry if this was posted in the wrong section. Maybe a mod can move it or something. Honestly though when I try to talk with some people they just seem too stupid to want to listen to anything so they continue BMing. I just hope anyone who is somewhat like that whether it's today or months later in the future who gets introduced to this community will read this and learn something. Maybe it will make someone realize something and will actually better their life from it or something. I can only hope to help someone in that sense though. I never really post on VGT and I don't really see that changing so I guess this long post makes up for that. Even if you don't agree with anything I said I at least appreciate everyone who did actually read everything I had to say. Thanks. Now for a somewhat catchy title.. CroNuS |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:26pm #2Pro]LovE- Regular (20) - LovE.801 |
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| Holy.. Shit.. | |
| http://i43.tinypic.com/nvnwo0.jpg |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:31pm #3sTaRz- Regular (11) |
| Dammmmmmmmm........ | |
| sTaRz- !!! |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:33pm #4Chooch Regular (24) |
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| Read the first sentence then, scrolled down to post this. | |
| http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5273/choochcopy.png |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:34pm #5K(o)C-master Regular (16) |
| holy shit ima go get sum popcorn then come back to this thread | |
| east K(o)C-masterwest dave[STFU]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/xWx-MaSTaKiLLa-/Leslie.pngmy style is like a ufo totally unknown |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:35pm #6LeGenD]SaiNt Regular (8) |
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| holy shit !! |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:50pm #7Deify Regular (32) |
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| I guess I have no life in reading the whole thing. :x | |
| [center]http://i32.tinypic.com/qz0imf.jpg[B]To know a man's philosophy is to acquire possession of the key to understanding him and also to dealing with him.[/b][i]~ H.C. Thiessen[/i][/center] |
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September 2nd, 2010 4:57pm #8SgTJoseph Regular (19) - sgtjoseph.850 |
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lol i think ur the only 1... i read like 3 paragraphs and scrolled down to see how long it was :( too long. deify can u sum up what he said like in 1 paragraph since you read it all :D |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:09pm #9CroN.CF Regular (3) |
I don't expect many people to read it. I wasn't sure where to post it though. Auditorium seemed too political. Move it there i suppose. I made a 1 line edit up top since I wasnt sure if many people would even read the first few paragraphs. If you at least read the first 2 paragraphs you get an idea of what it actually is. Just opinions I suppose. It talks about players skill level in relation to their personality and how it can effect their game and themselves in general. Such as how people might view them or how arrogance and ignorance can be a filter to most things progressive. I guess read the first 2-3 paragraphs and check the screenshots for a more detailed summary. I don't really post on VGT so I guess this makes up for that. I don't really plan on continuing to post more anyway. For those who do read it I appreciate it and don't really mean to bash on anyone. It took me a few sittings to actually finish writing it. |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:16pm #10Silent.aBs- Regular (16) - sGLoton.537 |
| ill read it tomorrow (= | |
| Loton . |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:23pm #11Apm.Dye Regular (9) |
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i agree with you lol. When people lose at sc and spend countless amount of hours and still suck, they tend to try and convince you that there lifes are so much better than yours haha its rather depressing cause you know it isnt. Yah i dont remember people bming this much back then. Its only in the fastest community too and thats dissapointing. As for people who use the word dodge when you dont got time or you just dont feel like playing a vgt game.... That has to be one of the most annoying things people do in vg. That is why i dont play leagues cause then you have people saying stupid shit like "dodge" if you dont feel like playing. I like to get on sc and relax, not get on and have some retard spam "dodge 1-0" for an hour. |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:27pm #12NbK.Assassin- Regular (18) - tGFuRY.531 |
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LOL! same |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:35pm #13Sgt.Beazy Regular (8) |
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good luck dude, sounds like your a cool guy. and yea ur right and i agree with most of the things u said. jk i didnt read it |
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September 2nd, 2010 5:48pm #14Social Regular (11) - HuK.530 |
| That was the most pointless thing I've ever read. | |
| http://sc2sig.com/s/us/388538-1.png |
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September 2nd, 2010 6:55pm #15toNic[zT] Regular (20) - toNic.530 |
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| °šĪ siKe[zT] @West |
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September 2nd, 2010 6:56pm #16Arith[zT] Regular (11) |
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I'll have to agree with Social to an extent. I read the whole thing, minus watching replays/reading screen shots (I already know what they contain anyway). I don't really feel the post contained anything significantly worthy of life changing events. I've BM'd on the game, that doesn't mean I do it in life. My own disappointment in losing occasionally made me say things like "sigh... can't believe I lost to you", in which means something more along the lines as I can't believe I fucked up to that extent. Definitely doesn't out that way and, more than likely, pisses the opponent off. With that said, there are definitely lost causes in this game but I have no idea why you had to make it a 10 min read to say that, lol. Brad is a genuine character that definitely needs to hop of a high horse. There are a couple others, but over all doesn't really bug me much. If I'm happy with my life and they try and boast about theirs, what does it matter? Them attempting to prove they have something greater than I do effects me little to none, especially without "proof". |
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September 2nd, 2010 7:00pm #17Pro]GobbaH- Regular (15) - sGGobbaH.923 |
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I didn't read all of it, but I read to where you talked about how people say useless things like "dodge more faggot!". I feel ya totally. I also try to be nice and mature, and don't get into bm. |
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September 2nd, 2010 7:06pm #18Pro]GobbaH- Regular (15) - sGGobbaH.923 |
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To be fair, there really are good players who are smart who act like children FOR FUN. However, the majority tries to win their games, when they lose they can't handle it and rage out on the opponent. If that fails, they try to convince their lives are better, and that you're a nerd cause you won. It's quite sad, really. It's a game, play it. |
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September 2nd, 2010 7:11pm #19Whoosh[zT] Regular (12) |
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Shut up you nooob. |
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| http://i54.tinypic.com/zvyjc1.jpg"Sooner or later, you'll always have to wake up." |
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September 2nd, 2010 7:21pm #20Pro]GobbaH- Regular (15) - sGGobbaH.923 |
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| Sarcasm? | |
| http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9303/sc2sig3.jpg |