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RemboL
 February 3rd, 2010 3:19pm #1RemboL
Regular (3)

When I started my team I added light zealot imagining him swiftly dodging zerglings claws of firebats flames and finishing off his opponent by series of quick stabs in the back... now, when my zealot reached level 11, I read through last battle transcript to see how well he manages and... he sucks!

It may be a possibility, that I didn't put enough credits in his skills, but at lvl10 he had maxed everything except armor - this, I admit, was mistake, but I thought that his strenght supposed to lie in dodging (agility) and quick attacks.

I stood against heavy firebat, medium firebat and siege tank.  As for quick attacks - well, they were quick, before his death he managed to score 6 hits, but 5 of those were for 1 damage (and 6th one wasn't that great either). As for dodging - he dodged once and got hit three times, and (because of low armor) those three times were enough to kill him.

In conclusion: higher agility isn't enough to compensate for low armor - medium and especially heavy units can take down about 1/3hp with one successful hit.  Same goes for high speed with low attack - if target is even moderately armored (heavies) then light unit can't even scratch its opponent.

At first I thought that this light/medium/heavy thing will work like rock/paper/scisors, just like fighter/frigate/cruiser thing in homeworld, but as far as I see, light unit is equal to light, gets pounded by medium, and gets pounded even harder by heavie.

So... is it just me, or do lighties really suck?
Spartan[nK]
 February 3rd, 2010 3:42pm #2Spartan[nK]
Head Admin (39) - NKspartan.568

Before I get into this in depth, can you give me a link to the battle you're talking about?
"I'm not a businessman. I'm a business, man."
6[nK]
 February 3rd, 2010 4:06pm #36[nK]
Regular (11)

lol, i fucking love this guys passion.

I added light zealot imagining him swiftly dodging zerglings claws of firebats flames and finishing off his opponent by series of quick stabs in the bac


I stood against heavy firebat, medium firebat and siege tank.  As for quick attacks - well, they were quick, before his death he managed to score 6 hits


Yesssss lol
Play Str[i][/i]ife Online, [url=http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/6-nk]Good Luck[/url] ;)
Spartan[nK]
 February 4th, 2010 3:35am #4Spartan[nK]
Head Admin (39) - NKspartan.568

Tweaked it a bit, let's see how light units perform now.
"I'm not a businessman. I'm a business, man."
RemboL
 February 4th, 2010 4:17pm #5RemboL
Regular (3)

1) I feel I kinda overreacted with my first post, saying that lighties suck - lets say it's about third or fourth time I play an online game where light/agile build is considerably weaker than others, so i got a little upset, sorry.  That does not mean, however, that I'm going back on my word - I still think that there is a difference in combat efficiency between lighties and heavies (at least with my data, which could be outdated - I don't know when exactly were any balance tweaks).

2) I couldn't find this particular battle report, so I checked thoroughly my last 4 battle reports ( http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/battles/143838 , http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/battles/143832 , http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/battles/143816 , http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/battles/143192 ), and while crunching numbers I realized that in more reliable statistical sample, zealot evasion worked better that 1 in 6, so I admit, that this one fight was quite unlucky.

Here are my calculations:

In my team I have light zealot (arm/spd/agi/atk: 6/30/49/23), heavy dragoon (41/3/5/49) and heavy reaver (21/4/5/74).
During last 4 battles zealot dealt 182 dmg (in 35 attacks, including those that didn't hit), dragoon: 281 (22 attacks), and reaver: 1102 (19 attacks, splash damage for entire team counted as one attack). Ignoring insanely high reaver damage, it shows that although zealot could attack much faster, overall damage was lower.
During those 4 battles zealot took 281 dmg (26 attacks, including dodged attacks and damage taken instead of other units), dragoon took 208 dmg (27 attacks) and reaver took 386 dmg (17 attacks).
Here, difference between heavy and light is not so big, but it is also caused by a) difference in HP between those units b) fact that dragoon didn't got attacked in 2 of those 4 battles, so I came up with another statistic (hope you take it as objective statistical analysis and not an attept to make light units look really bad ;] ) - zealot lost about 8.5% of his total HP in each attack (including doged attacks) and dragoon lost only 4.4%. I was surprised by reaver - 10.4% HP, but looking at its stats - it's not dodging anything with its agi and has much lower armor than dragoon, so it's usually first to go down.

Finally, calculating battle profficiency as (damage dealt per 100% hp lost divided by supplies used by unit - 1 for zealot/dragoon, 3 for reaver) it goes:

zealot 0.82,
dragoon 2.36,
reaver 2.08.
Jessica[nK]
 February 5th, 2010 4:26am #6Jessica[nK]
Regular (17) - NKsteve.484

Nah, trust me you didn't overreact, light and medium units indeed do suck, and you are going to notice this difference gets even greater in higher levels.  I have a level 15 team, maxed upgrades, and it has a light and medium unit in it, and it can beat perhaps 2 out of all of the teams level 11 or higher which consist of heavy units.  Light and medium units are a waste of time as heavy units continue to be op.
6[nK]
 February 5th, 2010 4:34pm #76[nK]
Regular (11)

word up.

also; seige tank sucks big fat cock.
Play Str[i][/i]ife Online, [url=http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/6-nk]Good Luck[/url] ;)
Armoric
 February 5th, 2010 5:07pm #8Armoric
Regular (4)

2 heavy bats + siege tank is better than full heavy bats against, say, reavers.  It's minimizing the cost to cap your upgrades (and thus efficiency) and partly negates the usefulness of the reaver's splash.  Well, currently reavers are more some kind of a zerg killer, anyway.
Staying with this topic, I have the feeling that the current balance is P > Z > T > P, which would be the inverse of SC's actual tendancies.  Nothing to criticize here, I just found that sort of funny.

I don't remember well, speaking of units' efficiency, but aren't hydralisks medium-sized anyway ? That would make them great defenders atm, with goons superior to zealots when tanking (so more goons, more explosive damage) and marines quite, well...useless, to say the least.  Luckily glings are betters for agression (and I don't know how well ultras fare, not intending to use one for now).
Or am I wrong and hydras are small units ?
d(O.o)d
 February 5th, 2010 5:25pm #9d(O.o)d
Regular (2)

http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/teams/tests11231

Try to beat my marine team with a similarly leveled team ^^
Armoric
 February 5th, 2010 6:04pm #10Armoric
Regular (4)

0K, I'll give it a try with this one ( http://vilegaming.com/strife.x/teams/mark_ii ) once it'll have catch up yours.  Well, if it fits what you mean by "similarly leveled" ?
RemboL
 July 21st, 2010 1:59pm #11RemboL
Regular (3)

Hey guys, I just started playing again after... about 4 months of being inactive and what do I see? My 20lvl l-zealot is still second best light unit in rank ;] - which tells me one of two things:

a) light units still suck and nobody uses them, which seems true to me after few battles
b) I missed some news and Strife has died of natural causes
K.Bear[nK]
 July 23rd, 2010 12:04pm #12K.Bear[nK]
Regular (16) - NKplague.601

i don't think anyone plays strife any more -_-
http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5010-Screenshot001.Jpg
iN.FaMe-
 July 24th, 2010 11:00pm #13iN.FaMe-
Regular (5)

i do.. :)
Darkly
 July 30th, 2010 11:14pm #14Darkly
Regular (3)

I just started, but unless some important changes happen to take place, I'll probably leave.

Light Units need a serious attack and speed bonus so they can ram home dozens of attacks before they are killed.  They should be dodging more often.

Heavy Units need a damage nerf so that they are tanks and not super human killing machines. . .
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